TWP 004 - Escaping the 9 to 5 - The Basics You Need To Know

Understanding what a 9 to 5 is important, if you're looking to escape it. As with most issues, in Pakistan - basics are not taught well, and I wanted to take this opportunity to introduce to you, the listener, to:
- What a 9 to 5 needs to be
- What a 5 to 9 needs to be
- How do you leverage your efforts in the right way
- What is the roadmap for someone looking to scale in the long run
Hosted by Saqib Tahir

Sample calendar: https://loom.com/i/8c88234f2aaa44c28eb3cba26e4547d6
Read companion summary article: https://sknexus.com/twp004/

Chapters
0:00 - TWP 004 - Escaping the 9 to 5 - The Basics You Need To Know
0:05 - Quick Update
0:51 - Where the episode actually starts
2:13 - Defining what a 'Good' 9 to 5 needs to be
4:47 - Transition vs Shortcut
5:27 - This episode won't apply to you if
7:16 - Escaping the 9 to 5 - Calendar View
8:11 - Feeding the Now vs Feeding the Future
9:34 - Hard vs Soft Skills
10:32 - Examples: Developer and Sales
13:32 - Compliment your skill set
14:22 - Building long term leverage
15:46 - How to transition from 9 to 5 to 5 to 9
17:37 - Why going from a job to services is better
17:48 - The problem with shortcuts
18:53 - Why services are the best way to transition
19:22 - What is leverage - in simple terms
20:13 - High vs Low leverage activities
20:21 - When to transition from a 9 to 5
23:10 - In the car segment: My path to building leverage

Further learning and references
https://sknexus.com/get-the-fundamentals-of-negotiations-right/
https://sknexus.com/attempt-vs-try/
https://sknexus.com/keep-learning-as-a-professional/

Chapters

• 0:00 TWP 004 - Escaping the 9 to 5 - The Basics You Need To Know
• 0:05 Quick Update
• 0:51 Where the episode actually starts
• 2:13 Defining what a 'Good' 9 to 5 needs to be
• 4:47 Transition vs Shortcut
• 5:27 This episode won't apply to you if
• 7:16 Escaping the 9 to 5 - Calendar View
• 8:11 Feeding the Now vs Feeding the Future
• 9:34 Hard vs Soft Skills
• 10:32 Examples: Developer and Sales
• 13:32 Compliment your skill set
• 14:22 Building long term leverage
• 15:46 How to transition from 9 to 5 to 5 to 9
• 17:37 Why going from a job to services is better
• 17:48 The problem with shortcuts
• 18:53 Why services are the best way to transition
• 19:22 What is leverage - in simple terms
• 20:13 High vs Low leverage activities
• 20:21 When to transition from a 9 to 5
• 23:10 In the car segment: My path to building leverage

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to another episode of The Wandering Pro. Okay, before starting the episode, let me tell you a little bit. Our last episode was on the Tech Made Fun site. I had to share that on LinkedIn because I thought it was a relevant episode for like the Pakistani audience or people on LinkedIn in my connections. It got a little viral and Muzamil from Thought Behind Things commented on it and because of that, I got a significant boost. A lot of people came to watch that episode on YouTube. And some of them subscribed also. If you are one of those people, Just understand that today's episode is of a sister podcast, The Wandering Pro, which is more focused towards career and business. So, the Tech Made Fun podcast will have a regular episode next week. And I am just a crazy guy who is juggling both of them side by side. So, just wanted to get that out. Don't get confused that I was talking about FinTech in the last episode and in this episode, career and business have started. What's going on here? So, let's get into today's episode. Recently, I think there's been a trend or a general lack of fulfillment. People have become more aware. TikTok and YouTube Shorts have gone viral. A lot of different reasons. But what I can see, generally speaking, and this is only from my online observations, just understand that not everyone was posting online. A very small population, a very loud minority posted online. They're always complaining about jobs. And a common topic that comes up again and again, especially in Pakistan, that I'm tired of 9 to 5, I have to leave from 9 to 5, I can't eat from 9 to 5, so on and so forth. I'm sure you must have seen that or heard it or heard it from a friend or a lover while saying this, right? So, I recently came across a Reddit post through a friend of mine and they were like, do you have any tips for this person? I said, okay, let's see. When I read the post, it said, something something, I want to escape 9 to 5. I graduated from university, I think, and it's been four months and I can't take any more of it. And I started laughing. And I started laughing because that is the fundamental problem with a lot of issues in Pakistan. Our basics or foundations of different things aren't built and we're trying to jump to conclusions or jump to the next stage. To find a shortcut, a get-rich-quick or get-big-quick shortcut. And people are just sitting there and selling that shortcut. That's not how it works. So, this episode, I wanted to record so that you guys can learn it yourselves or if someone is getting confused, you can share with them what 9 to 5 is. It's about escaping 9 to 5 and how to escape it, which is my process, right? As I said, everything in the Wandering Bro episodes that I talk about is from my personal experiences, which I have done and got others to do as well. It has had some success. And obviously, it works for a lot of people, but not everyone, right? And that's fine. The main goal here is that I'm sharing my experiences and my knowledge with you. And it helps you get inspiration and, you know, do better in your professional life. First of all, we have to define what a 9 to 5 is. And the reason is that most people, I'm telling you, majority, once I get this definition out, you'll agree with me, they don't even have a 9 to 5, okay? And they are calling it 9 to 5 because this terminology has become popular and everyone now calls their job 9 to 5. Oh, I do this 9 to 5, this is my 9 to 5, that's my 9 to 5. But we need to establish a boundary around it. Because if you start calling everything 9 to 5, it loses its meaning, which I think it has. And we need to like dial down, what is 9 to 5, okay? 9 to 5 is your, from 9 am to 5 pm, generally speaking, Monday to Friday, your paid effort. You go, do some work, you get paid for that work, you get your salary at the end of the month. That is the step one to define 9 to 5, okay? Around 40 hours of effort is called your paid effort for a week. Now here's where the twist comes in. Step two. If you have a 9 to 5, who is not paying your bills, or you are in debt, you have a lot of expenses, and you are barely managing, then you don't have a good 9 to 5. And this is the point I want to get across, right? To say that you have a successful or a good 9 to 5 is, that your bills are being paid comfortably. We are not talking about savings right now, we are just talking about paying bills. You are paying bills, and they are easily paid out of your salary. And then to add on top, which is another clause of mine, that is, a good 9 to 5 should allow you to scale. Obviously, the situation of jobs in Pakistan, there is no scalability or growth in most jobs. Very few jobs offer that. But there are some that do offer a scalable approach. Those who don't even increase 10% at the end of the year, they actually give you room to grow. Changing departments, changing roles, so on and so forth. Very few, but they do exist. Now the reason for telling 1, 2, 3 of this, that 40 hours of effort should be there, your bills should be paid, and it should be a scalable opportunity is that, this is a good 9 to 5. So the goal should be that, first you reach this good 9 to 5, and then you can think about escaping 9 to 5. Right? So that's why I wanted to define this, that most people whom I see, who often complain, their problem is not that they want to escape 9 to 5, they haven't even gotten to a good 9 to 5 before. Right? And everything in life, trust me, if it is done through transition, it is much better. Some people take a shortcut and reach further, and that's fine. But for majority of the people, most of the stuff in life happens through transition. Right? So that's why this 9 to 5 is very important. Again, your 40 hours of effort, that should pay your bills, and then it should allow you to scale comfortably, so that you don't have to worry about expenses for the next 3-4 years. Once you reach that point, that you have got such a job, now you are like, it is said, ready to escape that also, in the long run. Now, if you heard this definition, most of you, if you are doing a job, might say, that it doesn't apply to me. And that is exactly the point. That is what you need to do. You need to find, a better job. And we can cover that topic in another episode. But today's topic is first like, they say, the first step is acceptance. That you have to accept, that you don't have a 9 to 5. So, that is why we are identifying here. First step is admitting where is the issue. Now let's say, you do meet, the 3 conditions I have set. Then chances are, most probably, you are in the tech and IT industry. And in most of the episodes, I give this context again and again. That, unfortunately, the situation in Pakistan, tech and IT industry is the only industry right now, in which, there is huge growth, huge scalability, given that you have the skill sets, right? You are a developer, or a designer, or you are in the digital services, in marketing, content writer, something, something. If you are doing those jobs, here private companies, because they are doing business outside of the country, they are earning in dollars. So, they tend to pay good salaries, and they tend to respect 9 to 5. Mostly, because there are some American companies, so maybe your 9 to 5 is not there, your 6 to 3 is there in the evening. But generally speaking, if you are in the tech and IT industry, there is a good chance, you will succeed in step 1 to 3. So, that's a good tip. If you are not in tech to IT industry, the first step should be, how do I get into it, and get to that 9 to 5 definition. Once you are into that 9 to 5 definition, we can go to the other step, which is escaping the 9 to 5. So, this 9 to 5, this 40 hour box, or if you see your week view of the calendar, draw a box in it, which is being used for your 40 hours. You can name that box. The name of that box will be, feeding the now. Okay? That what is going on right now, feeding the now, feeding the present, or whatever you are doing, this is for now. This is what we call in the industry, perhaps a low leverage activity. Because most jobs, as I said, they don't scale too much, just that your bills are being paid, but your financial freedom, or time freedom, most jobs won't give you that. That's just how it is in Pakistan. So, that's why it's important to say, feeding the now. Now, when you see this box, all the empty spaces around it, where we are usually having tea with friends, or hanging out with family, or going to watch movies, which are all perfect things to do, I'm not saying, give up on those things. But there is a huge window there, right? When you put this in the calendar, you put 40 hours, you will see that, there is so much time, that I can also utilize, for feeding the future. And that is what I want you to do. You take your calendar, and map out these 40 hours, and then see, if you can map out, let's say, 20 additional hours, which you can mark on your calendar, and name it, feeding the future. Generally speaking, for me, if your job allows it, it is always good to do that, before your job starts in the day. So, if my job starts at 2 in the afternoon, the feeding the future thing, I will be doing from 12 to 2. Because then your mind gets fresh, and gets creative. And that is what you need, when you are working on long-leverage things. Because the job is defined, the job description, you know what you have to do after going to work, in that, mental energy is usually not consumed so much. But when you are doing long-term things, a lot of mental energy is consumed. So, what I want you to do is, just, you know, map out, that you have to take out 20 hours from the week. And I'm not saying that, you have to hustle, or you have to bustle, or you have to sacrifice your family time. You don't have to do anything like that. You just have to make a slot, and everyone can do this, around 20 hours a week, which we will name, feeding the future. Okay. Now, what do you have to do in this box? In feeding the future, you have to do this, and this is very simple. You just have to do these things, which will come under these conditions. Again, some condition setting. First of all, whatever you have to do, it should have a long-term approach. Right? And by long-term approach, I mean, you don't have to think that, which I covered in the last episode, that if I do this, my salary will increase. No, no, it has nothing to do with your salary. It usually has to do with your skills. You have to work on a skill, or work in an education or knowledge gathering, which has a long return. 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, depending on what you pick up, right? It has a long-term return. So, the obvious question becomes, what kind of skills should I learn? Because I simply divide it into two things. Because this is basically, to become a more balanced individual, or a balanced professional, you need to know a little bit of everything, right? But not in the sense that you should know everything, but generally speaking, category-wise. So, what are those two categories? Those two categories are, hard skills and soft skills. You must have heard these terms thrown around in every interview or resume. So, hard skills are usually skills that are technical, and soft skills are skills that are usually non-technical. It's a different story that it's more difficult to learn soft skills. We'll cover that some other day. So, if let's say, you are a developer, right? You are a software developer. You have worked for 3-4 years. You have a good 9 to 5, as we have defined. Then, you should make, feeding the future box. And what do you have to learn in that? Communication, sales, and basis of marketing. These are the top 3 things, devs struggle with. Communication, I have worked so much in the software process, they are afraid of going on a call, that they might get in trouble in front of the client. So, no, you have to learn this. You have to learn communication, learn sales, you have to learn the basics of marketing. These are the 3, I think, core skills that any developer should learn. Obviously, depending on what you have, or what are your aspirations, these might change. But generally speaking, from my experience, for a developer, these are the 3 biggest gaps they have in their skill set, and they should learn those. Right? So, let me give you another example, non-technical. Let's say, you are a sales person. Again, same thing, you have a good 9 to 5, 3-4 years of experience, you do a good job. You know everything about sales, right? Then, what you should learn is the opposite. You should learn some technical skills. Now, I am not saying that you should learn coding from technical skills, or become an expert in cyber security. No. From technical skills, I mean, things that you would not generally learn, right? Because, as I have worked with many sales people also, some of them don't even know how to use a laptop properly. No offense. But it's not their job. Their job is to do sales, they are very good at it, and they make money doing it, right? But eventually, they will reach a point where they can't grow further. And that's why we are doing this exercise, of feeding the future. It's still set. Now is set. Now, the developer is also set, the sales person is also set. But the future of both is not yet set. So, what does the sales person have to learn? My recommendation to the sales person, again, this is for sales people. You need to learn three things, which are a little technical. First of all, you have to see how to make a landing page. Simple as that. How to make a single page website. I don't care what tool you learn. You can use Wix, WordPress, or use car.io, whatever it is. But you need to learn, and understand how to make a landing page. How to use fonts in it, how to use colors, how to do sections. Go into a little technical depth of how a landing page should be. This is a really important skill to have, because if you want to sell something of your own tomorrow, you need a landing page, right? The second thing I would say to the sales person to learn, learn all, no code, design, and dev tools. There is a very common example in design, learn how to use Canva. Okay? The best one is running right now, so I would suggest it. If something else comes tomorrow, then sure. But learn to use a design tool. It will help you a lot later in your future. We will come to that later. And then the other thing you should do is learn tools in general. Tools can mean anything that makes workflow or process easier, right? Learn how to automate Zapier. Learn how to make a notion board. Learn a little project management. Learn how to put formulas in it. Learn Monday if you want to. Learn some tools. And if you can learn some dev tools on top, and by dev tools I mean no code dev tools. How to make a store on Shopify, or how to make a website on Squarespace, or how to make a website on Wix. These are like no code solutions that anyone can pick up and learn. Whether it's on a website or you have a lot of trainings, you can do it. But the end of it is that, see, if you're in a technical field, most probably you lack soft skills. And most probably those soft skills are usually communications, sales, or basics of marketing, right? These two or three things are very important, which every professional should have. And then if you're on the non-technical side of things, if you're in sales or marketing, then sales or marketing communication is most probably better for you. Although sometimes it's bad for them as well. But let's say it's good, you're a good kid, then you should learn some technical skills. Because at the end of the day, it's not enough to just talk, you need to have a solid product offering on the table as well. So these are complementary skills, as we say. And as I said, I gave two examples. These are not absolutes. In everyone's case, they're different, and it's hard to put them all in one episode. So I'm just giving you an idea of what kind of skills you should learn. Okay, so now we say, feeding the now is done. We've made a box of feeding the future as well. I've figured out these two or three skills that I need to learn. What's the point of all this? So as I said, there was a key thing I mentioned, that all these things that we're doing for long-term leverage, it means that for the next 6 months, 1 year, 1.5 years, you might not get any return for it. But one day, it will definitely come into your life, when everything will click. And you'll be like, okay, this is something I can start doing and make money from it. And that is your step one into escaping from 9 to 5, right? And here we come to a very big problem. So this whole concept of escaping 9 to 5, and side hustles and all that, this is a very Western concept. And the thing is, in the West, there are a lot of opportunities. I write a blog, I put 10 Amazon affiliate links in it, and I get money from it. There are so many opportunities that people leverage, and they make money from it. So everything fits there, everything works. Now, in fact, there's a lot of competition, so some things aren't working that well. But what happens is, we, or you, you'll go on YouTube, you'll watch shorts, you'll watch YouTube videos, and you'll be like, man, I should do this. Unfortunately, no. Those things don't work in Pakistan. There's no payment processor here yet, if you've seen the last episode of TMF. So that's the issue, right? The number one issue here is that, okay, I have learned the skills necessary. I have learned the technical skills and non-technical skills. So what do I do next? So next, obviously, for people who are in a good job, there's a very good opportunity for them to go and talk to their job or their CEO or founder, and change their role and go to a better role. So if you want to do that, do that. But if the purpose of the episode is to escape 9 to 5, so in my opinion, the best thing you can do is services, right? And I'm saying services because I don't want to use the word freelancing. It's been a lot of dirt on it. But by services, what I mean is, you have now a skill set. You know how to sell it, hopefully. You know how to market it, hopefully. And then you can offer that as a skill in your services, right? You're a salesperson, go and start giving cold calling services. Go and start giving outreach services. You know how to make a landing page. You have a sales background. You know what landing pages convert better. Go and start making those for people. You're a developer, you know sales and marketing. Go and see what kind of development services people need. Learn how to improve their package, right? Like, tell me if you've heard this. Whoever becomes a developer first, becomes a freelancer and then often fails. Why do they fail? Because you ask them, what do you do? I can make everything. I can make a website, I can make the sky. Give me some money, I'll make a Facebook too. It doesn't happen. If you've seen the first episode, niching down, right? So once you understand sales and marketing better, you will understand, okay, I'm a developer, I can make anything, but that won't sell. I need to sell something specific. I need to niche down. So because you learn the skill of sales and marketing, you will eventually click together. Okay, these are the two or three things that I can offer as a developer, which is in demand in the market, right? And that's the whole goal. That's why you have to pair technical and non-technical skills because it opens your horizons and it makes you understand what things connect with each other. And that makes it very easy when you go to services or consulting or freelancing. See, I myself went into freelancing from a job. And the reason I became very, very, very successful was because I went into freelancing from a job, right? I know so many freelancers who start freelancing from university or they jump directly to freelancing. And what happens is, yes, they make a lot of good money, right? But they don't grow at the rate that a person with corporate and job experience does. So that's why I said at the beginning of the episode, the problem with shortcuts is that, okay, maybe it worked for someone. Very few people work, but let's say they do. You still don't know how to grow. You took a shortcut. You never knew why you reached the stage you are in. But when you transition, you transition into a good 9 to 5. Then you transition out of that 9 to 5 into a good 5 to 9. And then you transition from 5 to 9 into a services business, then product or whatever, right? That transition is really important because that tells you what you did to get here and what you need to do to get to the next stage. The problem with shortcuts is that all that information, knowledge and experience is missing. And people might jump at the chance and people might think, oh, he made such a big jump. But they are stuck there for the rest of their lives. So that's why everything I want to teach here, everything I want to share on this channel, it needs to be long term. It needs to have an approach that gives you long term fulfillment. It's not that in the next 6 months, you get a 6th grade and then sit. That is, they say, the lottery winner syndrome basically. People who win the lottery, I don't know, they spend all their money or something. And that's why it happens. Shortcuts are not healthy. Us humans, we require fulfillment. And doing work that fulfills us is really good. So, getting back to the point. Because we live in Pakistan, there are no opportunities. In summary, services are the best way to transition into from your 9 to 5. Okay? Do consulting, do freelancing, do contracting, whatever term you like the most, whatever you find fancy, use it. But consider making services for your gig and start offering them or trying to offer them. The goal, as I said, of doing all this is that we have to create leverage. Now, what is leverage? I wrote an article on negotiations. Which is, once you are in the services thing, right now you are in 9 to 5, so it might not help you that much. But once you are in the services thing, the number one skill to understand is negotiation. Which includes sales, marketing, everything is a combination. And why is that? Because you have noticed all your life, it's basically based on leverage. You leverage different things you have and then you get a return on that, right? You leverage your time to learn a skill. You leverage your money to get something valuable. You leverage your value to get someone to pay you better, right? So everything is a leverage. There is no like secrets. There is no secret. Everything is leverage. And this is what we are doing here as well. The whole concept of feeding the now versus feeding the future, this is just you doing high and low leverage activities. Your job is a low leverage activity. The job, in most cases, won't let you scale a lot or grow or have that explosion in your life. But the activities of feeding the future, you're learning skills on the side, you're learning how to sell them, you're building a services business. Those are high leverage activities. Because that is a good indicator that your high leverage activity that is producing what you need. And now you can quit your 9 to 5 and successfully escape to your other activity. Because what will happen is, that activity had a very high leverage. That three times will create a much larger impact because the leverage stick is very long. And to make it easy and simple to understand, If you want to do 10 interviews for HR, start doing 20 interviews. Will you get a double salary next month? No, you won't. Because that's not how jobs work, right? And that's not feasible for jobs to work. Businesses can't do that. So, that's why you have to understand that the job is a low leverage activity. No matter where you work, your increment will take place once a year or in any time period. And that might be fine for some jobs, but for most, it's not good. And that's why in life, you have to balance low leverage activities and high leverage activities. Both have their own benefits. Like I said, the most successful freelancers are those who leave their jobs and come to freelancing. Because they already understand, they've been through a lot, they know what pain points to solve. They have a good polished skill set and they grow instantly in freelancing. But the one who comes to fresh freelancing after leaving the university, he doesn't get paid, he doesn't know how to write an email. He might have a degree from a 4-year university, but he doesn't know how to write a good email. And that's just what it is. So, the low leverage activities that you learn in a job, those are very important skills also. But you have to just understand, those are low leverage. You won't benefit from it in the long run. For short-term learning, for short-term growth, and overall becoming, they say, 0.1% better every day, that's fine. But if you're 0.1% better the result will be very long. To simply explain all this complicated debate, leverage is equal to impact produced versus divided by time invested. Keep this in mind. Okay? And, you know, as tradition is, at the end of every episode, there's a bit of poetry. So, just understand, the weight doesn't get any lighter. You just get stronger. After show. Okay, let's talk about what I just said. Look, when I was in a job, I transitioned into freelancing, and now I'm transitioning into business. So, the biggest lesson I learned was about leverage. So, a year ago, I decided that I will only do an effort that is reusable or scalable. Right? So, if I feel like doing something, and I'm speaking professionally, whatever I'm doing under Sken Access, recording this podcast, it's all for free. It's for passion. I don't merge it with money. I've kept it in a different vertical. That's how I keep it organized. That this is for passion and the other thing is for profit. So, anything I do for profit, I'm talking about that. Anything I do for profit needs to be something that is reusable or scalable. Because what was happening was that I was doing freelancing. Now, this might be a future episode. How to escape freelancing to next stage. Once I've figured out everything, I will let you know also when I reach that stage. But the main thing is that doing things that are reusable, that are scalable, right? I don't want to do things that I did once and then all their effort was wasted. No return, nothing. It doesn't happen that you don't get any return. You always learn something, right? There should be a positive outlook in life. But, you know, my goal became like a year ago that whatever I do for profit, it needs to be something that keeps getting returns. Even if it's a skill, you have to learn it in a way that keeps getting returns. So, I struggled a lot with it. But at the end of it, what I realized was that for me, the best thing is that I was offering some services at hourly rate, right? And I was like, in hourly rate, it's the same thing. It's a one-hour job. It's just another kind of job. So, what I thought is, okay, my role is very hard to productize. But I figured it out somehow. And I was like, okay, I will take some aspects and I will productize my role. And what will that do? That I can resell my services in a box again and again. And that way, I don't have to do a lot of effort. And that way, I don't have to work a lot of hours. And I can focus on my other things like this podcast, right? So, that was a really hard thing to unlock for me. And I was telling this in a couple of lines. It sounds very easy. But that probably took me like a year's worth of mental effort. And now I'm sitting on a stage where I can say that for profit making stuff, I have figured out a way forward. In 6 months, 1 year, 1.5 years, I'll be at a stage where all this, like they say, feeding outside the box. My feeding now and feeding future is a little different. So, my feeding future box has just started. And hopefully, in 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, it reaps returns to me, right? I don't know, after listening to this, so many people will escape 9 to 5. Should I start selling a course on how to escape 9 to 5? Who knows? But yeah, just this after show, like I wanted to say, this whole episode was based around explanation of leverage. I tried to do a good job of explaining that because at the end of the day, it's all about leverage. As you grow in your career, you will understand that concept very well. That every effort you put in, every dollar you spend, every dollar you make, everything has to do with leverage. And this concept will be revisited in the next episodes also, where I want to talk about how to negotiate better or how to become better at sales or how to provide more value. But right now, I think, understanding the basics, that's why I named this episode The Basics You Need To Know. You need to understand your situation first. If you're a fresh grad and you're listening to this, first understand, you need to make a good 9 to 5. Then post on Reddit that when to escape 9 to 5. First, reach a good 9 to 5. And if you are in a good 9 to 5, then you need to understand that to escape to 5 to 9, there is no shortcut. There is no secret shortcut. It's a simple process. It's just that execution is really hard, right? And that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for you so that you know what I have to do with my job. That after a year or two, I can become a self-fulfilled or self-business or whatever fancy word you want to use. OK, if you have any feedback, let me know by sending an email to podcast at sknxs.com and as always, I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you very much.